|
|
Post by Milan on Jul 18, 2015 11:11:30 GMT -6
Congrats Spurs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Berlin on Jul 18, 2015 11:17:33 GMT -6
I've read all the posts...just wow.
That is all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Belgrade on Jul 18, 2015 11:40:12 GMT -6
For example, it is difficult to understand how the two GMs on the GM of the Year list that got 10 points received their credit. One came off a championship season by trading their Finals MVP away and was not able to return to the finals. The other maybe made one trade and was never a serious contender? I'm not saying I disagree with either of their approaches to managing their teams, or that their moves weren't the right moves, or that I think they aren't great GM's, but how does it equate to receiving 2027 GM of the Year votes? Yes I did take a risk and traded my 2nd best player (Sampson was my best player) for a package of assets because long term I could not keep that full roster together and I knew I would be able to package some of those pieces along with other things for another piece that was a better long term fit. I had no idea I would end up landing Stockton but it was a long term move and in the short term I won a division with 3 teams with 50+ wins and played the Knicks tough in the 2nd round. The point is it was a long term move withouth much drop in short term performance and now I will take my chances on a team built around Stockton Sampson Alvin Kenny etc. Yes there is always more work to do and everybody approached it differently. As far as how I vote for these things since my first post didn't really clarify that: For GMOTY I look at the following things: Did they improve their roster? Did the improvements fit their roster and produce results? Did the moves impact the team short or long term negatively? i.e. does there appear to be a plan. I don't consider: What the team did in the playoffs bc my understanding is that it is supposed to be based on your off season through the regular season. Straight up record. If you won 60 games and did nothing to improve your team you are probably not going to get a vote from me Straigt up talent acquisition: If you acquired a ton of talent but it doesn't fit or the team doesn't play well you are probably not going to get a vote for me For IT I look at: How bad was the team record wise. Did the team imo underachieve Does the team seem to have a plan short or long term. Basically if I don't think you have a plan you are automatically under consideration. What does the future look like. Maybe you won 28-34 games but traded away your vets for assets, have a couple nice young players and somehow stayed out of the top 3 and positioned yourself for a good pick. Figured a clarification was deserved As far as GP and Seer they are two of my favorite GM's. Both are entertaining and always fun to bounce ideas off of if I want a very different perspective than my own. We don't end up making a ton of trades, but esp. with GP we talk fairly often about thing. I am looking forward to seeing what GP does with Toronto he seems to have a plan he is committed to and is being patient. In that division they could be a sleeping giant that awakens soon. With Seer as I said the jury is still out. He loves to trade he has a track record of building good teams in the past but he is also in one of, if not the toughest division in the league it will take some work to crawl out of 4th place imo. Like I said, I don't disagree with any of your moves last season. My point is that GM of the Year is an annual award that relates to the year in question. While your moves made sense, I don't see how your management of the team last season displayed extraordinary performance, which is what the GM of the Year award is supposed to recognize. They weren't bad moves, I don't see them as outstanding moves. The same goes for Mexico City. The only conclusion I can come to in answering how you both got 2027 votes is because you're both part of the boys-club. Like I said, this is not a personal attack on either of you. I think you guys are both great participants in the league, and I appreciate SF's work with the media board. I am just laying it out there as I see it, in relation to the 2027 season. For the most part I agree with your assessment of the considerations for the GM of the Year and IT awards. The only thing I disagree with you on is regarding the long-term aspects of the awards. As annual awards, I believe they should only consider the year in question and should be linked to performance in that year, in relation to how the team ended the previous season. By adding a long-term element it changes things. For example, if a GM traded all of their roster talent for incredible prospects, all in incredible moves that set them up to be a dynasty in 3 years, but finished last in the current season, would they be candidates for GM of the Year? While it shows they might know what they're doing and are superb GMs in the long run, I'd have a hard time handing out a trophy for something that hasn't performed. Regarding Chicago and Toronto, I did vote for them for the IT awards. Chicago finished last, and while that was probably his intention, the team performed literally the worst of everyone. Toronto came in with high hopes, but performed terribly. A lot of his future was mortgaged on last season (like giving up T-mac) and it was all for not. The outcome deserves some recognition for futility, whether or not the team deserved the outcome. |
|
|
|
Post by Belgrade on Jul 18, 2015 11:48:46 GMT -6
I've read all the posts...just wow. That is all. I understand GMs have been reprimanded and even removed from the league in the past for directly contributing negatively to the environment. I would suggest continuing that trend. That is all. |
|
San Antonio
Assistant to the General Manager
It's clobberin' time!
Posts: 975 
|
Post by San Antonio on Jul 18, 2015 14:19:55 GMT -6
I'd rather have a championship but I guess I'll take GM of the Year.  |
|
|
|
Post by Berlin on Jul 18, 2015 14:34:50 GMT -6
I'd rather have a championship but I guess I'll take GM of the Year. I'm happy to have been the person to have denied you that title. |
|
|
|
Post by New York on Jul 18, 2015 15:59:37 GMT -6
I'd rather have a championship but I guess I'll take GM of the Year. lol I know that feeling. Would definitely trade my gmoty seasons for titles. |
|
|
|
Post by London on Jul 18, 2015 20:41:39 GMT -6
I've just caught up with this thread and there is a lot of misinformation going around. Most of it seemingly coming from Belgrade.
The idea of a "clique" exists only in the fact that the GMs who respect each other talk to each other a lot. This is a high involvement kinda league you find people's opinions who matter to you. Many of the most influential GMs have joined relatively recently in the leagues life. You cite "John and New York" for doing a lot of the work but that New York only joined up 9 seasons ago. San Francisco about 6-7 seasons ago. It's more about the effort put forth and the contribution to the league that you make not about anything else.
Seer is one of my favorite GMs. We go way back. He is one of the nicest and easiest to deal with GMs. I don't have any major issue with CAIRONTO either. Couldn't tell ya why someone would vote for them for IT other than win totals (mixed with expectations in Torontos case). I don't think there is any systematic hate toward either of those guys. I dunno, maybe LA is still hung up on his first trade with Caironto but that's the only one I would even think holds a grudge against either.
FWIW - I don't vote in IT any year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Belgrade on Jul 19, 2015 1:53:12 GMT -6
I haven't presented any information, so I don't know how I could misinform anyone. I have just talked about my perspective on what I have observed.
Until someone presents a case to me as to why Mexico City, for example, received any GM of the Year credits for 2027 (let alone 10) I will conclude that it was due to his relationships with other GMs as opposed to merit. That will be my opinion, nobody else had to subscribe to it. If nobody cares to explain it, I understand as well. This is not a big issue at the end of the day. I consider this a dead issue that requires no further discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by San Francisco on Jul 19, 2015 5:57:43 GMT -6
He traded Zeke for the Chandler Hawkins package. That move was panned ay the time but he went out when the prediction was he would be a fringe playoff team and won his division etc etc
|
|
|
|
Post by London on Jul 19, 2015 9:37:51 GMT -6
He also probably got 4 votes for voting for himself 2nd.
So really you are torn up over 6 votes coming from about 15-20 GMs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mexico City on Jul 19, 2015 9:55:29 GMT -6
..and we deserved some votes as a team who trade thomas but came out much better dispite so so expectations and a slow start.
|
|
|
|
Post by Indiana on Jul 19, 2015 12:00:31 GMT -6
..and we deserved some votes as a team who trade thomas but came out much better dispite so so expectations and a slow start. I did a similar thing with McHale, traded him out then got Wilkins and came home like a boss to edge out Harlem for 8th. Harlem got a vote, you got votes. I turned a season around in my first year, was more active in the media then most for the pp and still got negged which to me suggests people arent fond of my personality which im totally cool with and people have a fat case of Shaq envy. Either way its water off a ducks back, I have quite a large personality in RL and dont particularly care what people have ever thought of me. I feel for Seer and Belgrade, they seem like top guys from what Iv seen and I would love to know what else Milan could do, even if it is just 2 votes he received but he tried to be competitive with what he had. I sense some disappointment from some the guys in the IT camp but peoples opinions are really just that, the only 1 thats really important is your own. |
|
|
|
Post by Los Angeles on Jul 19, 2015 12:45:12 GMT -6
Shaq envy?
|
|
|
|
Post by BC Žalgiris on Jul 19, 2015 16:07:09 GMT -6
was da awards!
|
|
|
|
Post by London on Jul 19, 2015 17:54:09 GMT -6
..and we deserved some votes as a team who trade thomas but came out much better dispite so so expectations and a slow start. I did a similar thing with McHale, traded him out then got Wilkins and came home like a boss to edge out Harlem for 8th. Harlem got a vote, you got votes. I turned a season around in my first year, was more active in the media then most for the pp and still got negged which to me suggests people arent fond of my personality which im totally cool with and people have a fat case of Shaq envy. Either way its water off a ducks back, I have quite a large personality in RL and dont particularly care what people have ever thought of me. I feel for Seer and Belgrade, they seem like top guys from what Iv seen and I would love to know what else Milan could do, even if it is just 2 votes he received but he tried to be competitive with what he had. I sense some disappointment from some the guys in the IT camp but peoples opinions are really just that, the only 1 thats really important is your own. I would say that you weren't visible enough then. Posting on the boards a lot and being on Slack a lot will keep you and your moves fresh in people's mind when voting time comes around. |
|
|
|
Post by Bayi on Jul 19, 2015 22:21:47 GMT -6
I haven't presented any information, so I don't know how I could misinform anyone. I have just talked about my perspective on what I have observed. Until someone presents a case to me as to why Mexico City, for example, received any GM of the Year credits for 2027 (let alone 10) I will conclude that it was due to his relationships with other GMs as opposed to merit. That will be my opinion, nobody else had to subscribe to it. If nobody cares to explain it, I understand as well. This is not a big issue at the end of the day. I consider this a dead issue that requires no further discussion. I'm super curious to know who you think is in the "clique." I assume Roark and myself are part of it, because we are familiar with each other. But, you might be surprised to find out that, while I love Roark as a GM, I hate nearly ever move he's ever made and can't handle trading with him. In fact, no offense to the other members of the assumed clique - (Berlin, London) - I never vote for them in anything, because I'm too much of a competitive asshole to admit they've done anything better than me. I only like New York and SF because they haven't been good for a LONG time in multiple leagues, though, to be honest, I'm starting to hate both of them as well. Anyway. Cliques. *throws up wolfpac fingers* |
|
|
|
Post by Boston on Jul 20, 2015 0:48:29 GMT -6
Ok, I really dig the competitive asshole part. Well stated.
|
|
|
|
Post by Los Angeles on Jul 20, 2015 5:41:09 GMT -6
I haven't presented any information, so I don't know how I could misinform anyone. I have just talked about my perspective on what I have observed. Until someone presents a case to me as to why Mexico City, for example, received any GM of the Year credits for 2027 (let alone 10) I will conclude that it was due to his relationships with other GMs as opposed to merit. That will be my opinion, nobody else had to subscribe to it. If nobody cares to explain it, I understand as well. This is not a big issue at the end of the day. I consider this a dead issue that requires no further discussion. I'm super curious to know who you think is in the "clique." I assume Roark and myself are part of it, because we are familiar with each other. But, you might be surprised to find out that, while I love Roark as a GM, I hate nearly ever move he's ever made and can't handle trading with him. In fact, no offense to the other members of the assumed clique - (Berlin, London) - I never vote for them in anything, because I'm too much of a competitive asshole to admit they've done anything better than me. I only like New York and SF because they haven't been good for a LONG time in multiple leagues, though, to be honest, I'm starting to hate both of them as well. Anyway. Cliques. *throws up wolfpac fingers* Ive never been good in any league, #vote4me |
|
|
|
Post by BC Žalgiris on Jul 20, 2015 7:14:17 GMT -6
I never....in this version...win a playoff series...tonya harding hits a guy in the knees with a bat, then we lose.
Vote me in 2029
Vote early vote often
|
|
|
|
Post by San Francisco on Jul 23, 2015 16:35:32 GMT -6
pp credited
|
|
|
|
Post by New York on Jul 23, 2015 16:59:17 GMT -6
Completely forgot I got PP for this.
|
|
Official Trader of ABCA
