|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 2, 2014 20:43:33 GMT -6
Cairo Trades :
SG Zidek
SF Woolridge
PG Davis
Mexico City Trades :
SF Dan Marjle
|
|
|
|
Post by New York on Dec 2, 2014 21:06:26 GMT -6
Cairo had to trade Zidek and Davis because of cap reasons (if he wants to bring back his backcourt) but Mexico City had more than enough cap to absorb them and not be up against the HC. Zidek & Davis are bad contracts but Zidek can still contribute and by the time MC has to worry about re-signing Wilkins, Sarunas, Coleman, and the rookies their contracts will be off the books.
Again I understand why Cairo made the trade but I think Orlando was his second best player and still has potential to grow. I would've kept him over Eddie Johnson/Darrell Griffith for sure.
|
|
Athens
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,001 
|
Post by Athens on Dec 3, 2014 0:46:10 GMT -6
MC by alot...
|
|
Toronto
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,367
|
Post by Toronto on Dec 3, 2014 5:08:22 GMT -6
I was at 61 million before this trade was made with two starters in free agency (Griffith and EJ). I had Sampson, Woolridge and Derek Harper coming up as free agents after the end of this season.
So if I didn't make this trade, I would've had the cap to resign ONE player out of Sampson, Woolridge, Harper, Griffith, Eddie Johnson. The only other option was to trade James Edwards, however I like Edwards better than Woolridge. Just look at how they played late in the season.
I literally had to give Woolridge away to keep the main core of my team together. This deal was a 37 million cap swing for us.
Again, Woolridge was statistically NOT my second best player, Edwards was.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 9:16:26 GMT -6
The trade is bad. I get dumping Zidek because that contract is horrible but I'm pretty sure if you were patient you could've found another deal to dump him. If you were really concerned about resigning EJ and Griffith, then you had until FA 1 to make a move. Idk about you but I would take Woolridge over EJ/Griffith combined every day of the week. And now your "Three Towers" that carried you into the playoffs are broken. They were your true core and I would put money on the fact that Harper and Woolridge probably would've resigned for less than max and EJ/Griffith most certainly will this offseason. So if the risk was losing one of them or throwing away Woolridge, I would've tossed one of them to buy myself more time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Derek on Dec 3, 2014 9:17:56 GMT -6
Yikes. Yeah... panic move, old Cairo. You've moved past this.
|
|
Toronto
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,367
|
Post by Toronto on Dec 3, 2014 9:19:44 GMT -6
Yikes. Yeah... panic move, old Cairo. You've moved past this. Did you read what I just posted? |
|
|
|
Post by San Francisco on Dec 3, 2014 9:22:56 GMT -6
Really don't get this move at all, nice job by MC to be there to add some solid talent.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 9:46:11 GMT -6
Yikes. Yeah... panic move, old Cairo. You've moved past this. Did you read what I just posted? He did, and came to the same conclusion I did. You had time. |
|
|
|
Post by London on Dec 3, 2014 9:46:23 GMT -6
Yikes. Yeah... panic move, old Cairo. You've moved past this. Did you read what I just posted? Yes but I think what everyone is saying is that Orlando Woolridge > the rest of it. |
|
Toronto
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,367
|
Post by Toronto on Dec 3, 2014 9:51:20 GMT -6
Did you read what I just posted? He did, and came to the same conclusion I did. You had time. It was trading Edwards or Woolridge + Zidek. There is no other way...I've talked to a handful of teams including you. Anyway, we will see how it shakes out when it's all said and done. |
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 10:37:29 GMT -6
He did, and came to the same conclusion I did. You had time. It was trading Edwards or Woolridge + Zidek. There is no other way...I've talked to a handful of teams including you. Anyway, we will see how it shakes out when it's all said and done. Since you brought that up, you asked for HONDO!!! While that would've been the ultimate tanking trade there is no way on gods green earth that I do that trade. You saw that I traded for the expiring Belov. Why not make an offer around him with a lesser guy like Harper? You rushed into it instead of considering the fact that EJ and Griffith are no where near as valuable to you as Woolridge was and that one of them could've been let go. |
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 10:41:05 GMT -6
Or maybe moving Sidney Green on the cheap seeing as he's easily replaceable with an MLE
|
|
Toronto
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,367
|
Post by Toronto on Dec 3, 2014 10:46:01 GMT -6
Terrible ideas all around
|
|
|
|
Post by Phil Jackson on Dec 3, 2014 10:52:33 GMT -6
eh...I don't mind it that much. I hate Woolridges's handles and Davis is also a bad contract so he dumped 2.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 10:53:35 GMT -6
So you're telling me that you wouldn't have traded me zidek/Harper/rights to #30 for Belov?
|
|
|
|
Post by Phil Jackson on Dec 3, 2014 10:54:36 GMT -6
So you're telling me that you wouldn't have traded me zidek/Harper/rights to #30 for Belov? Belov's pretty expensive for what he does too, right? How much does that save him? |
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 11:04:23 GMT -6
So you're telling me that you wouldn't have traded me zidek/Harper/rights to #30 for Belov? Belov's pretty expensive for what he does too, right? How much does that save him? Oh never mind, I get that. As for the other options though, he definitely should've been more patient. |
|
|
|
Post by London on Dec 3, 2014 11:10:10 GMT -6
So you're telling me that you wouldn't have traded me zidek/Harper/rights to #30 for Belov? Belov's pretty expensive for what he does too, right? How much does that save him? 17 mil next year. |
|
Toronto
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,367
|
Post by Toronto on Dec 3, 2014 11:11:43 GMT -6
Honestly this comes down to how we are valuing Woolridge. I agree he is good but you have to be very mindful of what type of system you want to run and who you surround him with to be efficient. He had one of the worst assist ratios of anyone in history, his career PER is below 15, his career defensive efficiency is higher than his offensive. He was a good scorer and rebounder. Nothing else. Making this trade better for my team in the long run.
People forget my 2nd best player is Edwards. He gave me 19.8 and 9.5 with a PER of 20.7 in the playoffs. The priority is to keep him and Sampson together.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 11:48:00 GMT -6
Honestly this comes down to how we are valuing Woolridge. I agree he is good but you have to be very mindful of what type of system you want to run and who you surround him with to be efficient. He had one of the worst assist ratios of anyone in history, his career PER is below 15, his career defensive efficiency is higher than his offensive. He was a good scorer and rebounder. Nothing else. Making this trade better for my team in the long run. People forget my 2nd best player is Edwards. He gave me 19.8 and 9.5 with a PER of 20.7 in the playoffs. The priority is to keep him and Sampson together. You really do flip the switch on player value in an instant. Before the deadline, you wouldn't move Woolridge and kept saying how amazing he was in your "Three Tower" system which actually worked pretty well considering you took out Maccabi in the playoffs. Why would you sacrifice one of the main cogs in your system over a replaceable SG like Griffith? I get that he might have been your third best player, but he was still an important part of your system. |
|
|
|
Post by Buenos Aires on Dec 3, 2014 12:20:57 GMT -6
This deal.makes me wanna puke. Will explain later.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sydney on Dec 3, 2014 12:27:20 GMT -6
I mean I think Cairo could have gotten back some sort of asset for Woolridge but this isn't as bad as the Beijing/Istanbul trade.
I have been a fan of Woolridge but I think he's kind of a blackhole on offense. Personally, I would have tried to package Woolridge + Zidek for a guy that could help me now but I don't know what discussions he had and I don't feel like speculating.
With that being said, I vote MC by a little because they pickup an asset for taking on contracts. This probably hurts his tanking next year but who knows, a lot of offseason left.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 3, 2014 12:30:02 GMT -6
I mean I think Cairo could have gotten back some sort of asset for Woolridge but this isn't as bad as the Beijing/Istanbul trade. I have been a fan of Woolridge but I think he's kind of a blackhole on offense. Personally, I would have tried to package Woolridge + Zidek for a guy that could help me now but I don't know what discussions he had and I don't feel like speculating. With that being said, I vote MC by a little because they pickup an asset for taking on contracts. This probably hurts his tanking next year but who knows, a lot of offseason left. After some more looking, I kind of agree with this assessment. I was trying to get in on the same deal but yeah Wool is very good offensively, but I hadn't seen just how bad his hands and passing were. Hella bad, and an average defender at best. He is still good just somebody you need to build a system around. Still edge to MC, but that's mainly cause all they had to give up was a very lackluster Majerle |
|
|
|
Post by Buenos Aires on Dec 3, 2014 16:53:57 GMT -6
Ok first of all I like Wooldridge, with bad hands and passing so I may be biased. I dont think hes a super stud, but I like him, and he has room to grow, and keeps improving.
You keep saying youd have to trade Edwards, but its nonsense, and an excuse that u talked yourself into doing this deal.
You are talking about having no room next season? And you have Griffith and EJ you want to resign? Well good luck. Both are the worst kind of FA guys, the middle class guys, that dont deserve a max, or something near it, but theres always some fool lurking and may offer a large deal, or just a huge 2 year deal or something like that. So you have two options:
1. Overpay them, thus making them much harder to trade, and again clogging your cap space, probably for even more money and time then Zidek+Wooldridge
2. Offer them a realistic amount of money and risk losing them for nothing, which may easily happen, and then you realize that on top of that, you dont even have Wooldridge.
So I think, mind some seriously lucky case where you resign them both to fair deals, you put yourself in a lose/lose position.
Not to mention you keep talking about resigning Sampson Harper etc, and theres probably a larger chance of an asteroid hitting us before 2015 arrives, then you having the SAME players on your team by the end of next season.
In any case, Griffith is easily replacable, EJ too. Wooldridge>EJ/Griffith on rookie deals, let alone with them both on large multiyear deals or not even on your team at all.
|
|
