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Post by Dave on Dec 2, 2014 20:41:50 GMT -6
Beijings sends:
-Vinko Jelovac
-Nate Archibald
-Michael Cooper
Istanbul sends:
-#5
-Beijing 2025 1st
-Aleksander Belov
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Post by New York on Dec 2, 2014 20:47:58 GMT -6
Vinko is great but value-wise this is a win for Beijing. Top 5 pick and with him apparently looking to rebuild, a lotto pick for next year. With that said, it's not necessarily a bad deal for Istanbul. Now he has:
C: Joe Barry Carroll
PF: Vinko
SF: Reggie Lewis
SG: Jim Paxson
PG: Nate Archibald
If he can get a more sure thing at SF, that's a solid playoff team depending on how Paxson develops.
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Post by Dave on Dec 2, 2014 21:01:01 GMT -6
I'm with Beijing by a landslide here. Vinko is awesome but giving up a top 5 pick and a pick that only had value to the team being dealt to is rough. Istanbul may be better next year, but a possible 8 seed doesn't seem as nice as just adding Penny to his young core.
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Athens
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,001 
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Post by Athens on Dec 3, 2014 0:45:15 GMT -6
Beijing by a little...
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Post by Sydney on Dec 3, 2014 12:35:31 GMT -6
Beijing by a lot and it's not even close.
If I'm trading him #5 for Vinko, in no way shape or form do I give up his first next year without getting Hondo.
This trade moves the needle very little for Istanbul in my eyes as Cooper is a backup, Nate is terribad and Vinko is good. When you factor in their actual costs, it is not worth it in my eyes.
Good job, Beijing.
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Post by Berlin on Dec 3, 2014 13:54:09 GMT -6
Beijing by a lot and it's not even close. If I'm trading him #5 for Vinko, in no way shape or form do I give up his first next year without getting Hondo. This trade moves the needle very little for Istanbul in my eyes as Cooper is a backup, Nate is terribad and Vinko is good. When you factor in their actual costs, it is not worth it in my eyes. Good job, Beijing. What this guy said... |
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Post by Derek on Dec 3, 2014 14:03:14 GMT -6
I actually understand it for Istanbul but don't like it. Hard to argue against getting Vinko.
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Post by Berlin on Dec 3, 2014 14:04:29 GMT -6
I actually understand it for Istanbul but don't like it. Hard to argue against getting Vinko. Very easy to argue against it at that price as a matter of fact... |
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Post by Derek on Dec 3, 2014 14:12:44 GMT -6
I actually understand it for Istanbul but don't like it. Hard to argue against getting Vinko. Very easy to argue against it at that price as a matter of fact... When yah break it down... #5 for Vinko... I am not sold 5 is a franchise changer. Vinko is P/P ... in prime. That 1st isn't nearly as valuable if Istanbul holds onto it. Then Beijing simply delays his rebuild. Why not snatch two contributors for it? Last year back-ups wouldn't go for less than a 1st. Get a starter and back-up. Why not? Still has 15 mill in cap room too. |
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Post by New York on Dec 3, 2014 14:17:28 GMT -6
Yeah that's basically what I said, Plossl. I understand him getting Vinko because it's been a while since he's made a playoff run and rebuilding obviously gets tiresome after a while. Vinko gives him a shot to make it and while Archibald, Paxson, JBC isn't an amazing supporting cast it's respectable as long as he adds to it. But like Plossl said the price he paid was too high. I know Beijing said he wouldn't trade Vinko unless he got back his pick (or at least that's what we spoke about) but Istanbul should've been able to shake something else out of him for two first knowing that Beijing was likely rebuilding if he traded his cornerstone.
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Post by Dave on Dec 3, 2014 14:24:03 GMT -6
Very easy to argue against it at that price as a matter of fact... When yah break it down... #5 for Vinko... I am not sold 5 is a franchise changer. Vinko is P/P ... in prime. That 1st isn't nearly as valuable if Istanbul holds onto it. Then Beijing simply delays his rebuild. Why not snatch two contributors for it? Last year back-ups wouldn't go for less than a 1st. Get a starter and back-up. Why not? Still has 15 mill in cap room too. One could argue that Hondo isn't seen as a winner, more of a curse. I think including next seasons was stupid, or I would have insisted on not taking on Nates gross contract with it and gotten some type of other compensation. I know that rebuilds suck, and it's why I tend to avoid them like the plague but I think a move like this is far to shortsighted. Competing for the 7-8 seed without alot of other talent and ways to get more talent just puts your own picks into the mid-late 1st so no difference maker there. I could see this move if they lacked their own picks but I think for a team built like this one is they'd have been better with Penny and being patient. |
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Post by Berlin on Dec 3, 2014 14:24:09 GMT -6
Yep, Beijing was screaming to anyone who would listen that he wanted to rebuild and wanted his pick back...KK can say all he wants that that the Beijing pick wasn't valuable because Beijing wouldn't have tanked, but he is one of the GMs who would have bled a team dry in the same circumstance. A good GM gets more out of the deal (how do you not get Hondo instead of Tiny?)...you either demand to keep #5 and just trade the Beijing 1st or you keep get more for both picks. No way around it.
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Post by Dave on Dec 3, 2014 14:26:24 GMT -6
Yeah, I think adding Hondo instead of Nate would at least make this deal better. JBC/Vinko/Hondo is a good little core for a 2yr run then you replace Hondo and keep going. But then again, Hondo is basically a 1-2 year rental who's hit that magic number of 30 so we just wait for the TC declines in athletics now
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Post by London on Dec 3, 2014 14:37:52 GMT -6
Hondo is better now but he is older than Tiny, right?
Dave makes it sound like Tiny can't play when he can play and is pretty capable.
Perhaps asking about Hondo would have made more sense for both teams but I don't see there being a huge difference between the value in Tiny and Hondo.
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Post by Beijing on Dec 3, 2014 14:40:42 GMT -6
I wouldn't ship Hondo and Vinko for 5 and my first even if he said thats what it takes because I'm confident enough in myself as a GM to make sure I make the playoffs. I went from an 18 win team to a playoff team in one offseason (drafted DFT, traded for Vinko) and then continued to trade and develop a contender from there so I'm sure I could plug the leaks in the ship until my next pick. However, he didn't ask so it was never an issue.
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Post by Phil Jackson on Dec 3, 2014 14:52:52 GMT -6
Very easy to argue against it at that price as a matter of fact... When yah break it down... #5 for Vinko... I am not sold 5 is a franchise changer. Vinko is P/P ... in prime. That 1st isn't nearly as valuable if Istanbul holds onto it. Then Beijing simply delays his rebuild. Why not snatch two contributors for it? Last year back-ups wouldn't go for less than a 1st. Get a starter and back-up. Why not? Still has 15 mill in cap room too. I mostly agree with this...though if I were Istanbul I wouldve play hard to get with his pick to see if I could get Hondo too for at least a little while |
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