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Post by London on May 28, 2013 14:48:24 GMT -6
Sydney, I'm not sure you're 1 and 2 are accurate.
Basically, you can talk any trade you want, I line up a ton of deals all the time. Just don't accept it and the back out.
If you tell the people "sorry, no deal" nicely then you should be good-to-go.
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Post by Sydney on May 28, 2013 14:57:11 GMT -6
Sydney, I'm not sure you're 1 and 2 are accurate. Basically, you can talk any trade you want, I line up a ton of deals all the time. Just don't accept it and the back out. If you tell the people "sorry, no deal" nicely then you should be good-to-go. I think it needs to be handled in 2 diff contexts; talking trade vs formal offers. If I pm you stating Felix for Boozer, if you accept it, I/we should honor the original offer. However, if I say something along the lines of does a Felix for Boozer deal interest you, the dynamics have totally changed. In the latter, I'm not formally offering you the deal but rather gauging interest. In the former, I'm specifically offering you Felix for Boozer and expect it to be honored if/when you accept/deny. There is a grey area when it comes to this interpretation but I feel it's easy to determine an offer from say an idea. EDIT: I think these are better points: 1) Don't accept a deal that is contingent upon other deals unless you specifically let the person know. 2) Don't accept a deal and then ignore the person 3) Don't pull shady stuff or no GMs will ever want to work with you, be forthcoming and keep some mystique to your thought process
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Post by London on May 28, 2013 15:02:39 GMT -6
Of course, you're right.
I didn't mean to be nit-picking but I was just trying to make sure we were clear on what is okay to do.
Agreed. We all talk trades, throw stuff out there, but basically it comes back to treating others right.
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davedean
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,279
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Post by davedean on May 28, 2013 15:14:34 GMT -6
lol
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Drew
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 777
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Post by Drew on May 28, 2013 15:23:03 GMT -6
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Post by London on May 28, 2013 15:23:32 GMT -6
I think he means FRANCA.
Gets confusing for those upside-down Aussies.
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Post by Sydney on May 28, 2013 15:28:49 GMT -6
HAHAHA yes, Franca was who I meant.
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Tyler
Assistant to the General Manager
Ruling with an Iron Fist
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Post by Tyler on May 28, 2013 15:34:23 GMT -6
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Post by Sydney on May 28, 2013 15:36:10 GMT -6
Of course, you're right. I didn't mean to be nit-picking but I was just trying to make sure we were clear on what is okay to do. Agreed. We all talk trades, throw stuff out there, but basically it comes back to treating others right. Understood, I prefer to be more specific so everyone understands what is expected when it comes to trade etiquette. For example, I sent CSP a trade offer and then went down the shore and unfortunately I didn't check the boards. I was logged into Skype on my phone and didn't see that he friend requested me to let me know the offer was accepted. When I got home yesterday, I saw the PM+friend request and felt terrible that I didn't get back to him for at least a day. I went ahead and posted the trade with the assumption he would still follow through with it, and as a respectable GM, he honored his commitment, even after a sim went through. I appreciate his patience and understanding and even with my delay, he didn't renege on our agreement.
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davedean
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Post by davedean on May 28, 2013 16:03:28 GMT -6
Usually a trade isn't official until both parties accept on the official thread.
But if people want to be bitches and back out, they should definately be called out so people know what they are dealing with in the future
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Drew
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 777
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Post by Drew on May 28, 2013 18:14:54 GMT -6
Of course, you're right. I didn't mean to be nit-picking but I was just trying to make sure we were clear on what is okay to do. Agreed. We all talk trades, throw stuff out there, but basically it comes back to treating others right. Understood, I prefer to be more specific so everyone understands what is expected when it comes to trade etiquette. For example, I sent CSP a trade offer and then went down the shore and unfortunately I didn't check the boards. I was logged into Skype on my phone and didn't see that he friend requested me to let me know the offer was accepted. When I got home yesterday, I saw the PM+friend request and felt terrible that I didn't get back to him for at least a day. I went ahead and posted the trade with the assumption he would still follow through with it, and as a respectable GM, he honored his commitment, even after a sim went through. I appreciate his patience and understanding and even with my delay, he didn't renege on our agreement. yup no hard feelings here at all, i'd deal with sydney again absolutely.
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Post by Buenos Aires on May 28, 2013 19:08:34 GMT -6
London - on your first post, my honest opinion is that it shouldnt matter if Im trading you my 2nd for your 2nd or Groza for Boozer. a deal is a deal, and some "rules" should be followed.
Brasil - I never mentioned you as the offender, and you at least had the guts to admit it here. Your edited post towards me says exactly what kind of a GM you are and Im glad you posted that. The fact is that your reasoning is just awful. I can partially understand your reasoning not wanting to do the trade after the sim, but theres a few things to look at: 1. You never ever mentioned that as a condition. Not before you officially offered the trade, not after since you didnt bother to reply. 2. My first reply was late because Im from Europe, totally different timezone, so that was a part of the blame. I did reply though as soon as I saw the message. I also replied to your question for my skype add in an 8 minute span. Didnt hear from you in 2+ days after that. 3. If you really dont see how not answering after offering a trade is bad, and how it really doesnt make sense you proclaiming yourself as an active guy, and then blatantly not answering a series of PMs for days while u were active on both the boards and skype, then I stand my assesment of you being classless. 4. In this case, classless isnt exactly throwing out names, its simple TRUTH.
Sydney- Completely agree with your post(s). There werent any conditions mentioned in our trade, besides that the Boston Brasil trade needed to happen before our. And it did. After the trade HAD HAPPENED, Brasil first sent a PM saying that he will have an offer ready for me in minutes, and indeed, after a few minutes he sent a formal offer in another PM. I replied with my acceptance, and saying that Id like for him to post and manage the salaries because I dont have the game..If that doesnt sound formal, then I dont know what does. And even if u try to avoid all that, and back out, for God sakes, at least have the GM decency to contact a fellow GM, and try to explain your case.
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Post by Berlin on May 28, 2013 20:13:17 GMT -6
I can't believe I missed out on this...this had all the makings of a great league thread. With that being said, it is insane for you to already be comparing this to "How?" John...that glorious thread of 481 posts was the greatest accomplishment that Global ABCA ever had. It's got tons of me and Corey in our prime, it has D2 and aflagrules at their worst (which seemingly was also their prime), and it even has JAH posting more than 3 times in a 3 week period (which by my count might still be a record). This thread is nothing close to that yet...let me know if you decide to fire Brasil and he goes on a 3 day rant...then this thing will kick up a notch.
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Post by London on May 28, 2013 20:19:04 GMT -6
I can't believe I missed out on this...this had all the makings of a great league thread. With that being said, it is insane for you to already be comparing this to "How?" John...that glorious thread of 481 posts was the greatest accomplishment that Global ABCA ever had. It's got tons of me and Corey in our prime, it has D2 and aflagrules at their worst (which seemingly was also their prime), and it even has JAH posting more than 3 times in a 3 week period (which by my count might still be a record). This thread is nothing close to that yet...let me know if you decide to fire Brasil and he goes on a 3 day rant...then this thing will kick up a notch. Done.
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davedean
Assistant to the General Manager
Posts: 1,279
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Post by davedean on May 28, 2013 20:23:49 GMT -6
Did someone just get fired?
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Post by Sydney on May 28, 2013 20:27:41 GMT -6
I am astonished that JAH posted more then twice in a given month, I feel like I was there but I cannot remember. Either way, that is a miracle.
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craig
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Post by craig on May 28, 2013 21:17:18 GMT -6
1. This thread is awesome. 2. This thread is awesome. 3. I can sympathize with Buenos Aires because something very similar happened to me just a few days ago involving Tehran (sorry bro, under the bus you go). Basically we were chatting over the course of a few days, we got towards the end of a deal and he made an offer and just needed cap filler and I said I'd go for it. He was online and didn't respond the same night and waited til the next day and resigned his offer. Now, I can understand the frustration Buenos Aires is feeling because it will jerk a GM around when they are in the midst of a deal and very active to get it done but at the same time you can't assume every offer is basically a trade set in stone. Maybe they are fielding offers, maybe they think they can get more, maybe they changed their idea of the trade, or their team.. There are a thousand reasons things won't happen and it's all part of the game. Also with fast responses from GMs, you are going to have to bear with us and the time our league is at because the league does take a lot of activity and quite a few teams are in tank mode who don't have a single player to watch. How excited can you be about tanking, with no assets, in the first year of a league? With all of that said I do hope GMs try to respond to one another in a more timely manner because that is specific to your team. The main things with activity in my opinion are DCs, PERSONAL messages, and posts the directly relate to the league as a whole. Everything else can be figured out with how much time you have. 4. Brazil, this is nothing personal, but name calling is definitely supported and I feel there is a time and place for it (which is all the time, in every thread) but depending on what the context is, it can be very tasteless. I think Buenos Aires went light calling you classless, but that is his opinion and it doesn't change me trading with you. But when you hop on and go into defense mode and call the guy a little bitch and cry baby it doesn't come off in very good light to you. In any case just giving some insight on how I feel about the situation. I don't think we need to replace GMs over something fairly avoidable. 5. London was I apart of that stupid thread? I do remember having a 5+ page argument about how a trade I did was dumb. Alot has happened. BTW I don't really feel like I threw Tehran under the bus, I understood the situation and he changed his kind which is no biggie. He did take a bit longer with PMs but I'm still alive right? Do I really have to explain myself in public? Okay, first off the deal I offered and you accepted was invalid because it put me over the hardcap, so our deal doesn't compare to this stupid bullshit since I had a legit reason to back out. On top of that, I told you the deal we were talking was going to be difficult capwise and you didn't consider that. We would have had to completelly alter our deal, because the hardcap that would have changed our deal. Even the day I took I was looking for other deals where I could lose some salary. So, it isn't like this bullshit.
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Tyler
Assistant to the General Manager
Ruling with an Iron Fist
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Post by Tyler on May 28, 2013 21:52:57 GMT -6
I never said it was, I just said I was in a similar situation and explained it a little bit. Your reasoning was plenty fine, and if you weren't interested anymore, you weren't interested. That's exactly why I don't feel like I threw you under the bus.. I understood the situation, and didn't make it out to be anything terrible. Chill.
Edit- On a side note I didn't know you were even talking about Hard Cap being the problem in our first trade, I thought you were saying caps didn't match.
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Post by London on May 29, 2013 7:04:36 GMT -6
Okay, so, if you are to take anything away from this, look at how many people remember the misdealings they have with others.
It will probably affect your future dealings with them (and their confidants).
Word gets around.
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Post by Bayi on May 29, 2013 9:11:41 GMT -6
London - on your first post, my honest opinion is that it shouldnt matter if Im trading you my 2nd for your 2nd or Groza for Boozer. a deal is a deal, and some "rules" should be followed. Whoa. Blockbuster trade announcement. GROZA FOR BOOZER. You heard it here first!
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Post by Mexico City on May 29, 2013 12:15:38 GMT -6
Personally I never consider a deal done until it get posted, up until that happens if someone backs out while it sucks, and may change my opinion on dealing with certain guys, its well within the "rules" per say.
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Post by Berlin on May 29, 2013 12:27:22 GMT -6
Personally I never consider a deal done until it get posted, up until that happens if someone backs out while it sucks, and may change my opinion on dealing with certain guys, its well within the "rules" per say. I completely agree with this statement...we've been over this 1,000 times before in all the ABCA leagues. Until both people post the trade (and that means posting, not just copy/pasting it), nothing is officially done other than trade talks. Either side can back out, causing hurt feelings, bitterness, resentment and some name calling. But with all that being said, a deal isn't a deal until it is officially posted...it is the way it is, it is the way it has always been and it is the way it will always be. The day the league gets into the "You get a warning because I have a PM saying you agreed to a trade under these three conditions" is the day I head for the figurative door.
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Post by London on May 29, 2013 12:36:43 GMT -6
Of course. A deal is never done until its done.
This was just an exercise in how to talk to people.
No one was demanding that this deal ultimately be completed - just that people don't wanna be led on in deals.
Completely agree with Roark and Plossl on this.
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Post by Bayi on May 29, 2013 13:01:29 GMT -6
You guys. This thread isn't going to get any longer if you just agree with each other. Bullshit.
I say John stinks. And I'm probably still pissed at Plossl for something he did back in Global.
Also: can we talk about the time that Doug traded me Wilt Chamberlain and then entire league threw a shit fit? It happened another time when Athens or someone traded me Dolph Schayes.
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Post by Bayi on May 29, 2013 13:02:09 GMT -6
Come to think of it, the league was bound to throw a shit fit over SOME trade I made every three or four seasons. Why is that?
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